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Talk:GNW-20003 Arche Gundam Drei
Arche Gundam Variants I happened across this page, and immediately wondered if there was ever gonna be an arche eins, or whether the jagd arece is already the arche eins. anyway im really interested, and would appreciate it if sonicsp or some other editor who can provide data files in japanese to give me something to translate. thanks! Bravecommander 10:52, November 25, 2010 (UTC) :I thought the Jagd Arche already combines elements of all three Thrones in it. The Arche Drei appears to be a very stripped down version of the Jagd version, but I find its incredibly "weak" compared to the Arche, if you'll excuse the comparison. Also I doubt there is Arche Eins, seeing as how Johann died in S1. Frankly I hope we get something which explains clearer why a machine like this was created, even though its only theoretical data. :Edit: After reading what CrusaderRedG21‎ added...I lol'ed. I really did. Call me skeptical, but Ali's Arche vs Nena's Arche Drei ? I think the conclusion is a bit obvious... :Azkaiel 11:05, November 25, 2010 (UTC) ::If Ali acted as silly and overconfident as he did against the injured Setsuna or as confident in his abilities as he was when he tried too (while injured) turn around, grab his gun and shoot Lockon (who only had to raise his gun again) then yes, he would get his butt handed to him. But if Ali acted smarter (like he did in the first season) and got Nena angry (easilly done) he could trick her into a fight where he could level the playing field. Arche vs Arche Drei however would give Nena the advantage if she used her beamspam at the start of the fight. Ali might be very skilled in close combat but he would basically be fighting three opponents. Nena and her two "bits". The Arche could handle two opponents but it wasn't designed to handle three at the same time. ::Speaking of which, does anyone know where I can find a larger version of this image? ::http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101125093558/gundam/images/9/96/Arche_Drei_vs_Arche.png ::ExcelCore 18:05, August 4, 2011 (UTC) ::Heck, I would've loved to see that in the second season, that is if Nena actually decided to join up with the Innovators, got this suit, and then ambushed Ali-al Saachez. And also, Louise wouldn't recognize the Arche Drei as the Throne Drei, and wouldn't have gone berserk and mopped the cosmos with her. XD --Falloutghoul (talk) 15:27, December 31, 2012 (UTC) :::It would have been interesting in a way but also un-needed since S2 is already pretty convulated as it is. I also think Ali would have easily clobbered Nena regardless, he doesn't really rely on beams that much and the Buster Sword would have been more than enough for him to defeat her given her skill level. The Fangs I believe would be his biggest loss as far as style is concerned, as well as his radar. In theory though, the A-Drei's radar would be loss too which even things out and A-Drei. The Anti-Beam properties of the A-Drei is also more disadvantageous for the A-Drei too since its Handgun and saber are beam based. Arche's big sword would give it an advantage in terms of arms with frame stats being equal. Add a more skilled pilot on Arche's side and things are not looking good for Nena. She would really have to play that surprise ambush card really well for it to workj cos she has close to zero chance in a direct fight. + + :::I'm also curious as to what Ribbons would think of this. Ali is his trusted agent afterall. I don't think Regene and Nena would be able to ambush him without Ribbons investigating later the cause and trace it back, with possible consequences to both of them. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 16:18, December 31, 2012 (UTC) :::::The reason the 2nd season was convoluted was in large because the producers got involved and started "making suggestions". According to Mizushima, Anew+Lockon was a direct result of such meddling. Even if some of Mizushima's own ideas were a tad bad, if he hadn't been forced to kowtow to the whims of the upper Sunrise managment, Season 2 woudl have been allowed to focus on stuff that the first season built up too. I.E no Anew+Lockon and no "Marie!!!!" crap. So if we had cut out all that, Nena could actually have been relevant to the 2nd season and that would have allowed her secret spying to actually come to the corefront and not just been an add on. Again, I disagree that Ali would have been able to deeat Nena. That he is the best thing since slicved bread is just fanon. I mean he is a good pilot, but most of his success comez from him being cut throat. Ali cheats. And Nena isn't that bad of a pilot, she is just a bit lazy. The people beating her up all did so by means of "sucker punching" her, and all of them were of the uber escalion of the skill level. These same pilots beat up on the other pilots as well. I'd place Nena around the same level as Tiera skillwise. :::::You seem to missunderstand something though. Ali would just have the normal screen. So he would only be able to see what was in front of him, not what was behind himself. It would be like placing blinds on him. So his skill with the sword would be greatly hampered. :::::The anti-beam properties wouldn't work against Nena since apparently the Arche Drei wouldn't be affected by it's own disruption field.ExcelCore (talk) 17:05, June 25, 2014 (UTC) :::I'm also curious as to what Ribbons would think of this. Ali is his trusted agent afterall. I don't think Regene and Nena would be able to ambush him without Ribbons investigating later the cause and trace it back, with possible consequences to both of them. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 16:18, December 31, 2012 (UTC) ::::About how the Arche Drei's GN Stealth Field Generator works, perhaps we should look to the original Throne Drei to see how its GN Stealth Field affected its sensors and GN Particle Composition. Or is the Arche Drei's GN Stealth Field even more powerful? --Falloutghoul (talk) 18:44, December 31, 2012 (UTC) :::We dont have much knowledge on whether its sensors are affected but I dont think there was any hint of short range communication problem for the Drei but any effect it had on GN Particle machines and communications is unknown either though we can at least assume that the quantum communication link with Veda is safe. But its also important to note that under normal circumstances, normal GN particle emission from Gundams only affects long range communications anyways but the A-Drei's fields appear to be able to disrupt short range communications as well as radars as well as beams which suggests its stronger. In any case, the beam diffusion effect is likely to affect A-Drei as well which doesn't help its case because its main armaments are beams. A-Drei's Bits probably work though, or else someone should really consider slapping the designer who thought it was a good idea to give a mech Bits and disable it by it's own Stealth Field system. Though since A-Drei never made it past the concept stage, one will also have to wonder whether they can have this powerful Stealth System work without actually comprising enough of its own abilities while its on. I have a feeling not all the bugs have been solved yet though guess we'll never know whether it possibly could or could not. ::::Perhaps it is best that we continue this discussion on the GN Stealth Field Talk page, or is it okay here? --Falloutghoul (talk) 01:11, January 1, 2013 (UTC) :::What I find more interesting is what's gonna happen to Arche once it loses its Veda backup because we're assuming it means all communications at the moment. I wont be surprised if it has a Stand Alone System ready to go just like the Gadessa and Garazzo did in finale of S2 (which we presume they have because they were functioning without Veda backup, and were able to do so the moment the Trial System faded), but then again since Ali is not an Innovator, Ribbons may be inclined not to give him one in case Ali goes rogue and needs to be shut down. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 19:48, December 31, 2012 (UTC) :Yeah, you're right. Since Johann is dead, there is no need for the Arche Eins to exist. Anyway, I think this suit is actually quite ok, as it has a relatively low particle consumption rate compared to it's brothers. :Bravecommander 12:24, November 25, 2010 (UTC) :The file of the main profile is already there in the page if your interested in looking it up further. We'll post more stuff or images when it comes up. :Anyways, this happens around in S2 with the Innovators sort of trying to offer Nena employment or something, so there's unlikely to be an Arche Eins since Johan is dead. There's some mention that it may have been specifically Regene too who offered it but I'm not too clear about the specificness of this picture. We have confirmed about the "Innovator offer Nena this to take revenge on Ali if they join them" kind of thing, which comes from the newly updated summary on the gundam00.net sidesotry section under 00V Senki (as citated in the articles; im the one who made the edit and the cite). -SonicSP 14:58, November 25, 2010 (UTC) Need Clarification On Something "Its primary combat strategy is to isolate the enemy using the GN Stealth Field, and then tear them apart with its GN Fangs." It's in the tech and characteristic part. From the places I've visited, I havent heard this being mentioned yet so I'm suspicious on whether it's true. Can somebody confirm or deny? I am not confidant enough to delete this with my knowledge cos maybe it's just something I havent heard this specific info due however Arche Drei is new and maybe somebody have heard something I havent, which is why I'm asking for clarification here before I simply delete it. Why I'm suspicious of this claim is because it's an exact replica of an excerp of the Jaged Arche profile (from memory), in which case the J Arche profile mentions that Arche uses the Stealth Field to disorient the enemies and destroy them close combat using the Buster Swords, this line sounds like it's saying the same thing except with the two GN Fangs instead. If it's not true and was indeed taken from J Arche and modified, I'm going to have to delete it. For the moment however, I just placed a "citation needed" after the sentence. Oh for the record, placed GN Drive Tau x 3 on the profile, based on the actual Arche itself. We have no idea or specific mention on the number of Drives Arche Drei carries but I think this is a very safe assumption being an Arche variant.-SonicSP 15:06, November 25, 2010 (UTC) Stealth Field ::Heck, I would've loved to see that in the second season, that is if Nena actually decided to join up with the Innovators, got this suit, and then ambushed Ali-al Saachez. And also, Louise wouldn't recognize the Arche Drei as the Throne Drei, and wouldn't have gone berserk and mopped the cosmos with her. XD --Falloutghoul (talk) 15:27, December 31, 2012 (UTC) :::It would have been interesting in a way but also un-needed since S2 is already pretty convulated as it is. I also think Ali would have easily clobbered Nena regardless, he doesn't really rely on beams that much and the Buster Sword would have been more than enough for him to defeat her given her skill level. The Fangs I believe would be his biggest loss as far as style is concerned, as well as his radar. In theory though, the A-Drei's radar would be loss too which even things out and A-Drei. The Anti-Beam properties of the A-Drei is also more disadvantageous for the A-Drei too since its Handgun and saber are beam based. Arche's big sword would give it an advantage in terms of arms with frame stats being equal. Add a more skilled pilot on Arche's side and things are not looking good for Nena. She would really have to play that surprise ambush card really well for it to workj cos she has close to zero chance in a direct fight. :::I'm also curious as to what Ribbons would think of this. Ali is his trusted agent afterall. I don't think Regene and Nena would be able to ambush him without Ribbons investigating later the cause and trace it back, with possible consequences to both of them. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 16:18, December 31, 2012 (UTC) ::::About how the Arche Drei's GN Stealth Field Generator works, perhaps we should look to the original Throne Drei to see how its GN Stealth Field affected its sensors and GN Particle Composition. Or is the Arche Drei's GN Stealth Field even more powerful? --Falloutghoul (talk) 18:44, December 31, 2012 (UTC) ::::"I'm also curious as to what Ribbons would think of this. Ali is his trusted agent afterall." Keep in mind that we're talking about Ribbon here. He won't mind throwing Ali, or anyone else, out like old thrash. He "trust" people in the way that you trust a good tool. --My girlfriend is a loli. 14:43, January 1, 2013 (UTC) :::We dont have much knowledge on whether its sensors are affected but I dont think there was any hint of short range communication problem for the Drei but any effect it had on GN Particle machines and communications is unknown either though we can at least assume that the quantum communication link with Veda is safe. But its also important to note that under normal circumstances, normal GN particle emission from Gundams only affects long range communications anyways but the A-Drei's fields appear to be able to disrupt short range communications as well as radars as well as beams which suggests its stronger. In any case, the beam diffusion effect is likely to affect A-Drei as well which doesn't help its case because its main armaments are beams. A-Drei's Bits probably work though, or else someone should really consider slapping the designer who thought it was a good idea to give a mech Bits and disable it by it's own Stealth Field system. Though since A-Drei never made it past the concept stage, one will also have to wonder whether they can have this powerful Stealth System work without actually comprising enough of its own abilities while its on. I have a feeling not all the bugs have been solved yet though guess we'll never know whether it possibly could or could not. :::What I find more interesting is what's gonna happen to Arche once it loses its Veda backup because we're assuming it means all communications at the moment. I wont be surprised if it has a Stand Alone System ready to go just like the Gadessa and Garazzo did in finale of S2 (which we presume they have because they were functioning without Veda backup, and were able to do so the moment the Trial System faded), but then again since Ali is not an Innovator, Ribbons may be inclined not to give him one in case Ali goes rogue and needs to be shut down. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 19:48, December 31, 2012 (UTC) ::::Perhaps it is best that we continue this discussion on the GN Stealth Field Talk page, or is it okay here? --Falloutghoul (talk) 01:11, January 1, 2013 (UTC) :::It's okay to continue it here since its a pretty relevant topic, though I'd have to kindly ask you to stop putting your replies in between my posts, since it's hard to read a conversation unless it's placed right after each other. Don't worry, we can tell which part of the post you are referring to. -SuperSonicSP (talk) 08:53, January 1, 2013 (UTC) ::::Alright then. ::::Now, about how the stealth field would affect the Arche Gundam Drei's own systems, I wonder if something was put in place to resist the effects of it's own Stealth Field Generator, because I doubt the engineers who would've built this would even ignore such an oversight. --Falloutghoul (talk) 15:07, January 1, 2013 (UTC) :::That's actually true, I doubt they'd let this thing fly without covering for that but its hard to know whether they had a solution and proved it in practice. Afterall, the Arche Drei only exists in concept stage and while other factors may have kept it from being built, its developement and proof testing may still not be done yet. In other words, they may have yet to solve the problem before the project was cancelled or whatever. :::I'm also interested in how it plans to counter the beam diffusion issue since it should affect itself. Assuming the beam diffusion here works in the same capacity as the one used in S222, some beams are actually useable. In that one, the weak GN Vulcans equipped on Arios GNHW/M's GN Cannon were able to function in the diffusion field while most weapons like the Rifle Mode of the GN Sword III were not. HG Exia also mentions that shorter beam saber lengths are used in order to make the blade harder to diffuse, which was the main purpose behind its GN Beam Daggers. So I guess the A-Drei could try a generating a veryyyyy short dagger from its GN Handgun? Still would be troublesome against Arche's sword. I still think it needs a stronger solid weapon other than its Bits if it seriously wants to use this beam diffusion strategy of it -SuperSonicSP (talk) 16:36, January 1, 2013 (UTC) ::::"This would have left the Arche Gundam with only its Buster Sword and line-of-sight against an unhindered Arche Drei, which is free of these problems as it can control the density of the GN particles around it." ::::So, mystery solved? --Falloutghoul (talk) 17:19, December 18, 2013 (UTC) :::Mystery solved for what? -SuperSonicSP (talk) 02:29, December 19, 2013 (UTC) ::::To how it isn't affected by it's stealth field. --Falloutghoul (talk) 13:53, December 19, 2013 (UTC) :::Where did that information come from? -SuperSonicSP (talk) 20:52, December 19, 2013 (UTC) ::::According to the source, 00V. --Falloutghoul (talk) 01:32, December 20, 2013 (UTC)